065b – תינוקת – פרק עשירי – נדה, סה ע”ב

The pressing-baskets,^[1]

העקלים - Redots (in the vernacular). In some places they tie the heap of grape-pips all round with baskets.

those of willow twigs and those of hemp,

בצבוץ - Hemp.

he dries them.

מנגבן - For they do not absorb so much.

Those of rushes and those of reed, he leaves them unused for a time.^[2]

שיפא - Rush, “glai” in the vernacular.

And for how long does he leave them?

Twelve months.

Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says: He leaves them from one grape-pressing to the next, and from one olive-pressing to the next.^[3]

Is that not the same as the Tanna Kamma?

The difference between them is early and late [seasons].^[4]

חרפי ואפלי - According to Rabban Shimon [ben Gamliel], sometimes they come to more than twelve months and sometimes to less.

Rabbi Yosei says: One who wishes to make them tahor at once scalds them in boiling water, or scalds them in olive-water.^[5]

Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says in the name of Rabbi Yosei: He places them under a spout whose water flows, or in a spring whose water runs.

And for how long [an onah]?

As they said regarding yayin nesech, so they said regarding taharos.^[6]

Which way is this turned? We are dealing with taharos!^[7]

Rather: As they said regarding taharos, so they said regarding yayin nesech.

And how long is an onah?^[8]

Rabbi Chiya bar Abba said in the name of Rabbi Yochanan: Either a day or a night.

Rabbi Chanah Sha’una – and some say Rabbi Chanah bar Sha’una – said in the name of Rabbah bar bar Chanah in the name of Rabbi Yochanan: Half a day and half a night.

And Rav Shmuel bar Rav Yitzchak said: They do not disagree.

לא פליגי - Rabbi Chiya and Rabbah bar bar Chanah.

This one is in the season of Nissan and Tishrei,^[9]

בתקופת ניסן ותשרי - When day and night are equal: either a day or a night.

and that one is in the season of Tammuz and Teves.

בתקופת תמוז וטבת - When they are not equal: half a day and half a night, which makes a full onah of twelve hours.

Here too, then, let us say regarding niddah: half a day and half a night? But he said a night and half a day!^[10]

Rather: either a night, in Nissan and Tishrei; or half a day and half a night, in Teves and Tammuz.

And if you wish, say:

A kesubah is different, for one takes more care over it, until they sign it.^[11]

שאני כתובה דמגהי בה טפי - There is delay in the matter, to be precise in everything and to sign it; therefore we require a full night and half a day.

Rav and Shmuel both said: The halachah is that he performs the be’ilas mitzvah and separates.^[12]

הלכה בועל בעילת מצוה - Whether her time [to see] has come or has not come.

Rav Chisda objected: It once happened that Rebbi gave her four nights within twelve months!^[13]

Rava said to him: Why go round to the incident? Object from the Mishnah!^[14]

He held: An incident carries more weight.

In any case, it is difficult for Rav and Shmuel!

They acted in accordance with Rabboseinu,

as it was taught: Rabboseinu reconsidered and voted: he performs the be’ilas mitzvah and separates.^[15]

Ulla said: When Rabbi Yochanan and Reish Lakish were engaged in Tinokes,

כי הוו מעייני בתינוקת - In this perek, which is called Tinokes.

they brought nothing up from it, except as a fox brings up

תעלא - A fox.

from a ploughed field.

מבי כרבא - From the ploughing, from which it brings out only dust on its feet. So too, we learn nothing from the perek of the Mishnah, only from the beraisa and from Rabboseinu, who say: he performs the be’ilas mitzvah and separates.

And they concluded it thus: he performs the be’ilas mitzvah and separates.

Rabbi Abba said to Rav Ashi: If so, a ba’al nefesh should not complete his act?^[16]

He said to him: If so, his heart strikes him, and he separates.

The Rabbis taught: And all those who were flowing with blood continuously –^[17]

from within four nights to after four nights,

מתוך ד' לילות - For one who did not see in her father’s house; or within the night, for one who saw in her father’s house – they must check. For they may not rely on saying: since they are flowing with blood, it is virginal blood – even after four nights; rather they check whether the appearance of the blood has changed, as [the beraisa] explains.

from within the night to after the night –

all of them must check themselves.

And in all of them Rabbi Meir is stringent, like the words of Beis Shammai.^[18]

ובכולן ר"מ מחמיר כדברי ב"ש - For a minor, four nights – to require her to check if she flows from within four to after four; and for a na’arah, one night.

And in the other sightings that are [disputed] between Beis Shammai and Beis Hillel, follow the appearance of the blood.

ושאר ראיות - Where she is not flowing, [those] between Beis Shammai and Beis Hillel: according to Beis Hillel they are tahor even if they changed, and Rabbi Meir said: follow the appearance of the blood. In this he does not hold entirely like Beis Shammai, for according to Beis Shammai they are tamei even if they did not change, since she is not flowing from within four to after four, for a minor; and from within the night to after the night, for one whose time has come and who did not see.

For Rabbi Meir used to say: The appearances of blood differ from one another.

How so?

Niddah blood is red; virginal blood is not red.

Niddah blood is murky; virginal blood is not murky.

Niddah blood comes from the source; virginal blood comes from the sides.

Rabbi Yitzchak bar Rabbi Yosei said in the name of Rabbi Yochanan: These are the words of Rabbi Meir; but the Sages say: All appearances of blood are one.^[19]

The Rabbis taught: A woman who sees blood because of relations^[20]

הרואה דם - It is not speaking of a virgin, but of niddah blood.

may have relations a first time, a second and a third;

from then on she may not have relations until she is divorced

Tosfos

היינו ת"ק - And if you ask: There is a great difference between them, for the Tanna Kamma requires twelve months, while Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says that when it became tamei in this pressing season he may use them in the next pressing season; if so, it is from the end of one pressing season to the beginning of the next, which falls short of a year by the whole length of the pressing season. One may answer that he holds the Tanna Kamma is not stricter than twelve lunar months, while the ripening of fruit follows the sun;^[21] if so, from the end of one pressing season to the beginning of the next there are twelve lunar months. And [the Gemara] answers: the difference between them is early and late – that is, last year was late and now it is early, and from pressing to pressing there are less than twelve lunar months. Alternatively, it was obvious to him that the Tanna Kamma does not mean twelve months from when the press was emptied, for then the days of harvest would be over and he could not use it for twenty-four months, which is another pressing season; rather, the twelve months the Tanna Kamma means include the time the wine is in it, and that is like Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel, who said “until the next pressing”. And [the Gemara] answers: the difference between them is early and late, as Rashi explained: early – when this year’s harvest comes sooner than last year’s, Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel is lenient, for there are not twelve months; late – when this year’s harvest comes later than last year’s, Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel is stringent. But the Tanna Kamma also agrees that whenever there are twelve months including the time the wine is in the press, that suffices – and this is a leniency.

וכולן ששופעות ובאות מתוך ד' לילות לאחר ד' לילות כולן צריכות לבדוק את עצמן - The Ri says: Not specifically when all four nights are completed; the same applies from any night within the four nights to the day after it. For if she saw by day she is tamei according to Levi, who said four onos; and even according to Rav, who said she does not lose the nights, he agrees that if [the blood] changed, the sighting is tamei. Therefore she must check whether it changed. Although at night too she is tamei if it changed, no check is required [then]; but by day a check is required, and we do not rely on saying: since she is flowing, it is virginal blood. And this check applies even according to the Rabbis who disagree below with Rabbi Meir, who say that all appearances of blood are one; for they certainly hold the ruling at the end of the first perek (above 11a): if the appearance of her blood changed, she is tamei. And below they do not disagree about blood that changed from what it was at first, but where both this and the first resemble niddah blood. And this is the explanation: And in all of them Rabbi Meir is stringent like Beis Shammai – in every dispute between Beis Shammai and Beis Hillel in our Mishnah, where they are stringent. And specifically during those four nights for a girl whose time to see has not come, and during the night for a girl whose time has come, Rabbi Meir declares her tahor even if it resembles niddah blood, and we attribute it to virginal blood. And the other sightings that are between Beis Shammai and Beis Hillel – such as from four nights until the wound heals, for a girl whose time has not come, and from the first night to four nights when her time has come, where according to Beis Shammai we do not attribute it to virginal blood at all, and according to Beis Hillel we attribute it to virginity even if it resembles niddah blood – there Rabbi Meir distinguishes: if it resembles niddah blood she is tamei; although within the nights or the night we would have attributed it to virginal blood, now we do not. And if all the blood after the four nights or the night resembles virginal blood, she is tahor. And the Sages say: all appearances of blood are one, and they hold entirely like Beis Hillel, and we always attribute it to virginal blood until the wound heals or until four nights, provided the blood does not change from how it was. And the Rabbis rightly hold that ruling of the end of the first perek, that if the appearance of her blood changed from how it was she is tamei – unlike Rashi, who explained that according to the Rabbis she is tahor even if the appearance changed from how it was. And if you ask: what does this check teach us? Even within the time we attribute [blood] to virginity, as for one whose time to see has not come according to Beis Hillel, where we attribute it to virginal blood until the wound heals, it says in the first perek (above 11b) that a virgin checks morning and evening lest the appearance of her blood changed; all the more so after the time of attributing it to virginity has passed she must check – for this check is the morning check. And if you say he mentioned “flowing” because, since she is flowing, one could attribute it to virginity beyond her time just as within the time – on the contrary: since even when she feels no sighting at all she must check, all the more so when she feels a sighting. One may answer that the morning-and-evening check above was established for taharos, but for her husband no check is needed, while here it speaks of her husband, for whom a check is required. Alternatively, this check is with a tube,^[22] [to see] whether it comes from the source or from the sides; and so it is implied in the Tosefta. And this explains why the latter clause teaches: niddah blood comes from the source.

Notes

1. 1. This continues the beraisa cited on the previous amud (Niddah 65a): how one who wishes to work in purity purifies a winepress and olive press that became tamei. The Gemara brought it against Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel’s “night and half a day”, since the beraisa’s onah seems shorter. The akalim are the woven baskets in which grapes and olives are pressed.
2. 2. Baskets of rush or reed absorb a great deal, so drying them is not enough; they are left unused until everything absorbed in them has dried out.
3. 3. That is, from this year’s grape harvest to the next, and from this year’s olive pressing to the next – about a year, but measured by the seasons.
4. 4. Charfi – a year in which the harvest comes early; afli – a year in which it comes late. Since Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel measures by the harvest seasons, his period is sometimes shorter and sometimes longer than twelve months.
5. 5. Hag’alah: purging a vessel of what it has absorbed by putting it into boiling water. Scalding in hot olive-water works the same way.
6. 6. Yayin nesech – wine poured as a libation to idolatry, which is forbidden for any benefit. Vessels that absorbed it must be purged before use.
7. 7. Literally, “toward which side?” – an expression for a statement turned the wrong way round: since the beraisa deals with taharos, it should say that yayin nesech is learned from taharos, not the reverse.
8. 8. The Gemara now asks how long the onah of the beraisa is, to see whether it contradicts Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel’s “night and half a day” for the bride.
9. 9. The season of Nissan and Tishrei is around the equinoxes, when day and night are each twelve hours, so a day or a night alone is a full onah. In Tammuz and Teves (the solstices) they are unequal, and half a day and half a night are needed to make twelve hours.
10. 10. Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel said above that the full onah given to a bride who saw blood while still in her father’s house is a night and half a day – which is neither a day or a night, nor half a day and half a night.
11. 11. The kesubah is the marriage document the husband writes for his wife. On this answer, the bride is given a night and half a day because checking the kesubah carefully and having it signed takes extra time.
12. 12. Be’ilas mitzvah – the first relations of the marriage. After it the husband separates, lest any further blood be niddah blood rather than virginal blood. Rav and Shmuel rule so in every case.
13. 13. The beraisa cited on Niddah 64b: the husband left on a journey after the first night, and each time he returned he found blood, three times over; Rebbi ruled that it was virginal blood – so he gave her four nights, not just a be’ilas mitzvah.
14. 14. Our Mishnah itself (Niddah 64b) gives a bride more than a be’ilas mitzvah – according to Beis Hillel four nights, or until the wound heals – so why object from an incident?
15. 15. Rabboseinu (“our masters”) – a court that reconsidered the matter and voted to rule more strictly than the Mishnah.
16. 16. A ba’al nefesh is a God-fearing person who is strict with himself. Rabbi Abba asks: if we are concerned about blood, such a person should be concerned even during the be’ilas mitzvah itself and not complete it.
17. 17. As Rashi explains, the four nights are those given a bride who had not seen blood in her father’s house, and “the night” is that given one who had. Blood within that time is attributed to virginity; even so, she must check whether its appearance has changed.
18. 18. Beis Shammai give less time than Beis Hillel: four nights to a minor whose time has not come (Beis Hillel: until the wound heals), and one night to a na’arah whose time has come (Beis Hillel: four nights). Rabbi Meir follows Beis Shammai in requiring her to check.
19. 19. The Sages hold that the appearance of the blood cannot tell virginal blood from niddah blood, so within the permitted time all of it is attributed to virginity. Tosfos holds that they still agree she is tamei if the blood changed from how it was at first.
20. 20. A ro’ah machmas tashmish is a woman who sees blood each time she has relations; after three times she is forbidden to her husband. The beraisa ends on the next amud (Niddah 66a): “and she may marry another”.
21. 21. Twelve lunar months are about eleven days shorter than the solar year, by which fruit ripens; so from the end of one harvest to the start of the next there can be twelve lunar months.
22. 22. A tube inserted to see whether the blood comes from the source (the uterus), which is niddah blood, or from the sides, which is not.