Bava Kama, Page 117a - הגוזל ומאכיל - פרק י - בבא קמא, קיז ע"א

Was it law, or was it a fine?^[1]

אי דינא - It is law that an informer must pay.

He said to him: If it was law, we learn from it.

גמרינן - From this case of Rav Nachman, for other indirect damages in general.

If it was a fine, we do not learn from it.

ואי קנסא - It was a fine that Rav Nachman imposed on him, because he was habitual in this; we do not learn from it.

And from where do you say that we do not learn from a fine?

As it is taught: At first they would say: one who renders [his fellow's taharos] impure and one who pours [his fellow's wine] as a libation^[2] [are liable].

המטמא - His fellow's taharos; or one who pours his fellow's wine as a libation to idolatry. Although [the item] lies before him and its damage is not noticeable, he pays.

They reverted to say: also one who mixes^[3] [terumah into his fellow's produce].

“They reverted”: yes; had they not reverted: no.^[4]

לא חזרו - We would not have learned the one who mixes from the one who pours a libation.

What is the reason?

Is it not because it is a fine, and from a fine we do not learn?

No.

At first they held: for a great loss they were concerned; for a small loss they were not concerned.

להפסד מרובה - One who renders terumah impure causes a great loss, since it is no longer fit to be eaten; one who mixes causes a small loss, since [the mixture] is sold to kohanim at the price of terumah.

And in the end they held: for a small loss, too, they were concerned.

Is that so? But Avuha d'Rabbi Avin taught: At first they would say: one who renders impure and one who mixes.

המדמע - He mixed chullin with terumah, lowering the value of the chullin, which are now fit only to be sold to kohanim.

They reverted to say: also one who pours a libation.

אף המנסך [כו'] - Had they not reverted, we would not have learned the one who pours a libation, even though his loss is greater than that of the one who mixes and the one who renders impure, whose loss is small compared with the one who pours a libation.

“They reverted”: yes; had they not reverted: no.^[5]

What is the reason?

Is it not because we do not learn from a fine?

No.

At first they held like Rabbi Avin, and in the end they held like Rabbi Yirmiyah.

At first they held like Rabbi Avin, for Rabbi Avin said: One who threw an arrow from the beginning of four [amos] to the end of four [amos], and it tore silks on its way, is exempt.^[6]

זרק חץ - On Shabbos.

For the lifting is needed for the setting down, and he is liable with his life [at the very moment of the damage].

עקירה צורך הנחה - Since it tore between the lifting and the setting down, the Shabbos act and the act [of damage] come as one; and we do not say that from the moment of lifting he was liable for money, while liability with his life comes only when the arrow comes to rest. So too here, the lifting of the wine is needed for the libation, and the payment and the death penalty for idolatry come as one.

And in the end they held like Rabbi Yirmiyah, for Rabbi Yirmiyah said: From the moment of lifting he acquired it^[7]; he became liable to him for money.

Liability with his life does not come until the moment of the libation.

Rav Huna bar Yehudah happened to come to Bei Evyoni. He came before Rava.

לבי אביוני - A place.

He said to him: Has any case come to your hand?

He said to him: An Israelite whom gentiles coerced, and he showed them his fellow's property.^[8]

It came before me, and I made him liable.

He said to him: Reverse the ruling, back to its owner.

As it is taught: An Israelite whom gentiles coerced, and he showed his fellow's property, is exempt.

And if he took it and handed it over with his own hand, he is liable.

נשא ונתן ביד חייב - For he saved himself with his fellow's money.

Rabbah said: If he showed it on his own, it is as though he took it and handed it over with his own hand.

מעצמו - Without coercion.

A certain man was coerced by gentiles, and he pointed out the wine of Rav Mari, son of Rav Pinchas, son of Rav Chisda.

They said to him: Carry it and bring it with us.

דרי ואמטי - Carry it and go with us to the king's house.

He carried it and brought it with them.

He came before Rav Ashi, and he exempted him.

The Rabbis said to Rav Ashi: But it is taught: If he took it up and handed it over with his own hand, he is liable!^[9]

He said to them: That applies where they had not set themselves upon it from the start.

ה"מ - That if he took it and handed it over with his own hand, he is liable.

היכא דלא אוקמינהו - The gentiles upon the property from the start, through the coercion, but he went, took it and gave it to them. But here, where they had set themselves upon the wine, it was “roasted,” and from that moment he is exempt; when he carried it afterward, he was carrying what was already theirs.

But where they had set themselves upon it from the start, it is already “roasted.”^[10]

Rabbi Abahu challenged Rav Ashi: If the oppressor said to him: Hand me this bundle of sheaves or this cluster of grapes, and he handed it to him, he is liable?

פקיע - A bundle.

חייב - Even though the gentile stands over the property, since he took it and handed it over himself, he is liable.

Here we are dealing with a case where they stood on two sides of a river.

בתרי עיברי נהרא - The gentile on one side and the sheaves on the other side, so that had he not handed it to him, the oppressor could not have taken it.

This is also precise, for it teaches: “hand,” and it does not teach: “give.”^[11]

Conclude from it.

A certain net that two were quarreling over: this one said, It is mine, and that one said, It is mine.

שותא - A net for fish or for animals.

One of them went and handed it over to the king's officer.^[12]

Abaye said: He can say: When I handed it over, I handed over my own.

Rava said to him: Is it in his power [to say so]?

Rather, Rava said: We place him under a ban^[13] until he brings it back and stands in judgment.

A certain man wanted to show [the authorities] his fellow's straw.

He came before Rav.

He said to him: Do not show! Do not show!

He said: I will show! I will show!

Rav Kahana was sitting before Rav; he tore his neck out of him.^[14]

לקועיה - His neck; he broke his neck.

Rav read this verse about him (Yeshayahu 51:20): Your sons swooned, they lay at the head of every street like a wild ox in a net.

תוא - An animal: the wild ox, as the Targum renders (Devarim 14) “the te'o and the zemer”: turbala^[15], a tor (ox) of the bala (forest).

Just as this wild ox, once it has fallen into the net, no mercy is shown it, so too the property of a Jew, once it has fallen into the hands of gentiles, no mercy is shown it.

אין מרחמין עליו - And you did well to kill him.

Rav said to him: Kahana, until now there were the Persians, who were not particular about bloodshed; but now there are the Greeks, who are particular about bloodshed, and they will say: Rebellion! Rebellion!^[16]

Arise, go up to the Land of Israel, and accept upon yourself that you will not raise difficulties to Rabbi Yochanan for seven years.^[17]

He went and found Reish Lakish^[18] sitting and concluding the day's session for the Rabbis.

מסיים מתיבתא דיומא לרבנן - He was going over and teaching them again what Rabbi Yochanan had expounded that day; for Reish Lakish was a great scholar, and after all of them had heard it from the teacher, he would go over it and set it right for them.

He said to them: Reish Lakish, where is he?

They said to him: Why?

He said to them: This question and that question, this answer and that answer.

They told it to Reish Lakish.

Reish Lakish went and said to Rabbi Yochanan: A lion has come up from Bavel.

Let the master look carefully into tomorrow's session.

The next day they seated him in the first row before Rabbi Yochanan.

בדרא קמא - Seven rows of students sat before him, one in front of the other.

He stated a teaching, and he did not raise a difficulty; a teaching, and he did not raise a difficulty.

They moved him back seven rows, until they seated him in the last row.

Rabbi Yochanan said to Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish: The lion you spoke of has become a fox.^[19]

He said: May it be [G‑d's] will that these seven rows take the place of the seven years that Rav told me.

He stood on his feet and said to him: Let the master go back to the beginning.

He stated a teaching, and he raised a difficulty.

They placed him in the first row.

He stated a teaching, and he raised a difficulty.

Rabbi Yochanan was sitting on seven cushions.

ביסתרקי - Tapis (carpets) in the vernacular.

They pulled one cushion out from under him.

He stated a teaching, and he raised a difficulty against him.

Until they had pulled all the cushions out from under him,

until he was sitting on the ground.

Rabbi Yochanan was an old man, and his eyebrows hung down.

מסרחי גביניה - His eyebrows were large and covered his eyes.

He said to them: Lift my eyes for me, and I will see him.

They lifted them for him with a silver eye-paint stick.

He saw that his lips were split.

פריטא שפתיה - His lip was split by a wound.

He thought that he was laughing at him.

He was hurt, and he [Rav Kahana] passed away.

The next day Rabbi Yochanan said to the Rabbis: Did you see how the Babylonian behaved?

They said to him: That is his way.

He went to the cave, and saw that there was…

Tosfos

לאו משום דקנס הוא - And as for why at first they did not decree on this one as on that one, according to the Gemara, which does not yet have in mind the reason of a small loss: one can say that an incident happened with one who rendered impure and one who poured a libation, so they decreed on them at the time of the incident.

כיון שנפל בידי עובדי כוכבים אין מרחמים עליו - That is, he is rightly called an informer, for it is certain that they will take it once he has shown it to them.

השתא יווני נינהו כו' - The Ri finds it difficult: in the second chapter of Gittin (16b; and there 17a, s.v. ha), Rabbah bar bar Chanah fell ill, [the Rabbis] went to visit him etc., he said: Merciful One, either in Your shade^[20] etc., and the Gemara asks: Is that to say that the Romans are better than the Persians? This shows that the Persians were still in Bavel then, and seemingly that incident came after the incident here. The Ri says: the ministers and officials kept changing; sometimes they were Persians and sometimes Greeks.

Notes

1. 1. Just before this, Rav Nachman made a man pay who had shown his fellow's property to the gentile authorities. The question is whether that was strict law (din), so that we may learn from it for other indirect damage, or a fine (kenas): a penalty the Sages impose beyond the strict law, here because the man informed habitually. No general rule is learned from a fine.
2. 2. Both cause hezek she'eino nikar, damage that cannot be seen: the taharos or the wine look unchanged, yet can no longer be used. The metamei makes his fellow's ritually pure food impure; the menasech pours his fellow's wine to an idol, making it forbidden. By Torah law such damage is exempt; the Sages imposed payment (Gittin 53a).
3. 3. Dimua: mixing terumah into a fellow's chullin. The whole mixture becomes forbidden to non-kohanim and can only be sold to kohanim, at the low price of terumah.
4. 4. The beraisa says the medamea was added only when the Sages “reverted.” So until they said it outright he was exempt, although his damage, too, cannot be seen; his case was not learned from the first two.
5. 5. In this version it is the menasech who was added later. Until the Sages “reverted” he was exempt, even though his damage is the greatest of the three.
6. 6. Carrying an object four amos in a public domain on Shabbos is a melachah punishable by death. One who incurs a death penalty and a money liability through the same act pays nothing (kam lei bid'rabbah minei). The arrow tore the silk in flight, between its lifting and its landing, so both liabilities arise together.
7. 7. A thief acquires the object, and becomes liable for its value, the moment he lifts it. The menasech becomes liable to death for the idolatrous libation only when he pours; the money liability came first, so the two are not simultaneous and he pays.
8. 8. A moser (informer) shows or hands over a fellow's property to oppressive gentile authorities. The question here is one who did so under duress.
9. 9. The Rabbis quote back the second clause of the beraisa above: even under duress, one who took the property himself and handed it over is liable, since he saved himself with his fellow's money (Rashi).
10. 10. “Roasted”: already lost. Once the gentiles had laid hold of the wine through their coercion, it was as good as theirs, and carrying it for them caused no further loss.
11. 11. The beraisa says “hand me” (hoshit), a word for reaching across, rather than “give me.” So the oppressor could not reach the sheaves himself, and it was the Jew's act that caused the loss.
12. 12. Parhagna: an officer of the king's court. Handing the disputed net to him put it out of the other claimant's reach.
13. 13. Shamta (niddui): a ban by which beis din sets a person apart from the community until he complies; here, until he returns the net and comes to judgment.
14. 14. One who insists he will inform on his fellow is treated like a rodef, one who endangers others, and may be stopped even by force. This is why Rav did not hold the killing against Rav Kahana, as the next lines show.
15. 15. The te'o is listed among the kosher animals in Devarim 14:5; Onkelos renders it turbala, which Rashi reads as tor bala, “ox of the forest”: a wild ox.
16. 16. Rav contrasts the former rulers, the “Persians,” who did not punish bloodshed among the Jews, with the new rulers, called “Greeks,” who do, and would treat the killing as a revolt. Rav Kahana must therefore flee. Tosfos below asks about the dating.
17. 17. Rabbi Yochanan headed the great academy of Eretz Yisrael in Teveria. Rav sends Rav Kahana there, binding him not to challenge Rabbi Yochanan for seven years.
18. 18. Reish Lakish (Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish) was Rabbi Yochanan's leading disciple and colleague, and his brother-in-law, famed for his sharp objections.
19. 19. A “lion” is a great scholar, a “fox” a lesser one. Rav Kahana stayed silent because of his promise to Rav, so Rabbi Yochanan took him for a weak student.
20. 20. In Gittin 16b–17a a Persian priest came and took away the lamp while the Rabbis visited the sick Rabbah bar bar Chanah, and he prayed to be under G‑d's protection or else that of the descendants of Esav (Rome): Roman rule is better. So Persians still ruled Bavel then, though that story seems to come after ours.